Re: Message 6 BY: Reminded

Dear Vin

Thank you very much for your reply and the attached files.

Actually, I haven’t finished reading the file “The Bahais”. It is a long message and takes time to carefully go through. However, I have gone through some pages (I guess the first 25 pages) and would like to have some comments on it.

Before dealing with ‘The Bahais’ message, I need to mention some points.

1- As I have told you before, I respect your ideas and you have shown that this is bilateral. Our discussions, therefore, do not and will not mean hatred and are not aimed at bringing or introducing any kind of animosity.

2- Such comparisons as ‘which one, which way, or which religion is better than the other’ is totally irrelevant since the start point of all God-based movements is one and the fruit of all of them is also one. It is based on such comparisons that the human being is struggling with different religions and is left in confusion. The result is hatred and standing against each other.

3- I am not playing with words. I looked up ‘remedy’ and ‘command’ in my Longman dictionary and it says:

Remedy (n) = a way of curing something. Example: The law provides no remedy for this injustice (= cannot put it right)

Remedy (v) = to put or make (something bad) right. Example: How can we remedy this situation/injustice/mistake/loss?

Command (n) = 1- an order 2- the right to command; control

You may find the words ‘revealed’ and ‘reveal’ in The Reminded Way message in different sentences. “I am revealed to reveal the truth”. However, as you can see clearly in The Reminded Way message, the main focus is not on the person who has been revealed to bring such message. Focusing on one person will add one more name to the long list of the Messengers. The result will be more strife and religious chaos in future.

God uses man to send His message to all people. Therefore, I physically exist and am living among you. Nevertheless, His will should be done; and His will is not introducing important people to the world.

4- No single organization, no single team, no single mass movement has ever been able to get all the possible votes. There are always some votes against a congregation. The Bahais are not an exception. The Bahai movement, like other movements of the world, cannot and will not be able to get all the possible votes of the world’s inhabitants since it is a kind of congregation. You may call this congregation a ‘Faith’, as the Christians call their way ‘Fellowship’ and the Moslem call it ‘Submission’. If you look at these words, you may know that different people have used different names for one purpose. They are all calling one God. However, since they have established a kind of mass movement they are defending their congregation’s name. To do this, they are standing and will stand against other names.

Man has made the story of religions very long. Man has put regulations to keep their ways organized and to stand as an organization.

I am telling you today that this story was not this long at all. There is only one word and that word is love. Love can be described in different ways but, still, it is love. At the presence of your true beloved, all you have is true love and focusing on her. If you are truly in love with somebody, you pay all your attention to her when you see her. At that very moment when you see your beloved, you do not pay attention to the way you should stand before her. You do not pay attention to the way you should greet her. At that very moment, you forget yourself because you are focused on her. When you are alone with her, you feel comfortable with her, you feel free with her and you forget the entire world.

Then after you spend some time, little by little, you start paying more attention to yourself. It is then you notice that you are not properly dressed (for example); your shirt is not very clean and so on. The more you pay attention to yourself, the farther you go away from her and your initial love. The first love did not have regulations. The love you had in the beginning would not let you pay attention to your clothes (for instance). She had accepted you as you were in the beginning. She had ignored the way you had your clothes on.

We can see such things in the world of religions. The founders of each religion brought that ‘first love’. Later, the followers paid attention to the way they should get dressed (as an example). The more regulations the followers introduced or focused on, the farther they went from God. Love breaks regulations.

I am reminding people of what they have been told already. Messengers encouraged people to love. Messengers encouraged people to wholeheartedly submit themselves to God. Messengers put God in the center of attention. Unfortunately, people are focused on their messengers. You look for God through Bahaullah, for example, a Christian looks for God through Jesus, a Mohammedan looks for God through Mohammad. The same is true with all other religions. Then there comes the idea of my God and your God. People are focused on their messengers not what their messengers have introduced.

Do you like sports? I like tennis for one important reason. I don’t really watch the game! I like watching the people! It interests me a lot. Do you want to know what I see? I see hundreds or thousands of heads focused on one ball and move left and right harmoniously. People are focused on one ball in a wonderful unity. However, they are not aware of this themselves. If you take a film of those who are watching the game and let them see that film later, all of them will smile when they see the heads moving left and right together! They are united without knowing or noticing it.

On the other side, you cannot see such unity of the heads if the people focus on the players who are hitting the ball. Some will focus on one player; others will focus on the next. The unity breaks automatically. To remain united, they should focus on the ball only. This ball automatically draws the attention of the people.

Symbolically, God is the ball of this field and players are the messengers.

The Reminded Way puts it this way:

There is only one God. As far as people focus on one God, they are united automatically. In this case, all eyes are looking upward in unity to see one God. Focusing on players (messengers) breaks this unity automatically. The same is true that more than one ball (God) in the playground brings disorder, which breaks unity ultimately. If you know the source, if you are in touch with the source, if you love the source, if you live in the source, and if you are in love with others, you are what all the messengers have tried to make; no matter if you are Zoroastrian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, Christian, Moslem, Bahai, or a part of any other religions.

Messengers are supposed to take people to the top (source). Unfortunately, people are crowded behind each messenger. This has prevented people from climbing to the top. People have turned their Guides (messengers) into a barrier. The upward movement towards the top is blocked behind each Guide.

In a very short example, I can describe messengers as a policeman who is in the middle of one road and guides the vehicles to go this or that way since the bridge on the old road is under construction.

We can see three groups of drivers here:

1- Those who do not listen to this policeman and go straight forward. Their car will go deep into the river since the old bridge is broken.

2- Those who follow the policeman’s hand and go to the direction he is pointing to. On their way, they see the broken bridge on the old road and say, “My goodness! We could fall in the river like that car if we had not listened to the policeman. We should thank that policeman.” Then, they stop their car, get off the car and walk back to that policeman to thank him. By stopping their car, they block the road although they are going to thank the policeman. Lots of other vehicles are stopped behind their car. The result is that there comes a heavy traffic that will make the policeman angry in the end.

3- Those who follow the policeman’s hand and move on to the direction the policeman is pointing to. By keeping on moving to that specified direction, they do not bring disorder. In this case, they have respected the policeman through their action.

In this example:

Group 1 are those who do not believe in messengers (and basically the existence of God). They walk on their own way. They fall and receive their own punishment. They have destroyed just their own car.

Group 2 are those who believe in messengers. However, they make their messengers as a blockade behind whom lots of people and cars are stopped in the heavy traffic. This group has brought a big disorder. They have stopped not only their own car but also lots of other cars behind them. They are more guilty than the group 1 since the problem they have introduced does not refer to themselves only. They are those who praise messengers for saving their life.

Group 3 are those who just followed the policeman’s hand. By obeying the policeman’s hand they respected him. They did what the policeman (messenger) asked them to do. The policeman (messenger) is very happy with them since they listened to him and followed his instructions. The policeman (messenger) is not working there to draw people’s attention to himself. He is there to show the way to people.

Now, let us take a look at ‘The Bahais’ message.

Although I am deeply grateful to the Bahai community for the help they are giving to other people throughout the world, I need to inform you that the writer has mostly focused on the social aspect of this Faith during the first 25 pages. I am not going to mention them one by one since it will take a lot of time. I will just mention some of them. You may find more of such comment by yourself if you go through that message.

The idea of making schools for children or greenhouses in a village is praiseworthy. However, you are maneuvering on such activities in such a way that overshadows Bahaullah as a spiritual leader. The picture I get of Bahaullah during these pages is that he was mainly a ‘Social Reformist’ than a ‘man-God link’.

You can see hundreds of orphanages and homes the Christian have built throughout the world for homeless kids. This is just one example. Personally, I have visited several of such Christian orphanages in some countries where the governments are even communist and do not welcome Christian activities.

The next are some of the sentences I have taken from ‘The Bahais’ message. My comments are the short black sentences under each red sentence.

The challenge of maturity is to accept that we are one people, to free ourselves from the limited identities and creeds of the past, and to build together the foundations of global civilization.

A kind of social reform. Did the messengers come for ‘Civilization’? If yes, a country like China must be the most uncivilized country in the world since they do not have a religion!

The power that is awakening this consciousness throughout the world is the universal Revelation of God promised in all the scriptures of mankind’s past. Its spokesman is Bahá’u’lláh whose teachings provide a blueprint for the social organization of the planet and whose growing influence is the great untold story of our time.

Another social maneuver.

The Bahá’í Faith’s global scope is mirrored in the composition of its membership.

A congregation/organization.

Since it also forms a single community, free of schism or factions, the Bahá’í Faith comprises what is very likely the most diverse and widespread organized body of people on earth.

Such diversity is also available in Christianity and Islam. Please note that the Bahai Faith is very young compared to former religions.

The youngest of the world’s independent religions, the Faith founded by Bahá’u’lláh stands out from other religions in a number of ways.

“World’s independent religion”

There is no independent religion. Each messenger is the continuation of the former one. Their movement is inner-related. The idea of making each religion independent from the other comes from worldly characters. There is one God and all messengers come from one source.

It has a unique system of global administration, with freely elected governing councils in more than 18,000 localities.

Reflects social organization.

For a global society to flourish, Bahá’u’lláh said, it must be based on certain fundamental principles. They include: the elimination of all forms of prejudice; full equality between the sexes; recognition of the essential oneness of the world’s great religions; the elimination of extremes of poverty and wealth; universal education; the harmony of science and religion; a sustainable balance between nature and technology; and the establishment of a world federal system, based on collective security and the oneness of humanity.

Although praiseworthy, several of these principles are social based. (Social reformation)

The Bahá’ís have established “significant” communities in more countries and territories than any other independent religion with the exception of Christianity.

Again “independent religions”.

Are you competing with other religions? If yes; where, when and how such competitions will end?

At the local level, for example, Bahá’ís each year elect a nine-member administrative council, which is known as the local Spiritual Assembly.

A kind of social activity.

“I hated the white man,” said Mr. Kukama, who now lives in Bophuthatswana . “To me, all whites were oppressors.”

Jesus also said love those who hate you in 2000 years ago.

“Bahaism [sic] is an independent religion on a par with Islam, Christianity, and the other recognized world religions. Bahaism is not a sect of some other religion; it is a separate religion, and it has the same status as the other recognized religions.”

Again, ‘Independent religion’ – ‘A separate religion’

Sharing Bahá’u’lláh’s vision is known as “teaching” in Bahá’í terminology. Teaching can take many forms. Someone who wants to know more about the Faith might be invited to a “fireside.” Firesides are informal gatherings in the homes of Bahá’ís. Short talks on Bahá’í principles are presented and discussion follows. Light refreshments are often served, and the gatherings are notable for their warm and hospitable atmosphere.

Gatherings and Home groups are also held in many different religions such Islam and Christianity, where the friendly atmosphere is shown.

Bahá’ís also endeavor to spread the Faith by moving into areas where there are few Bahá’ís. This is known as “pioneering.” This differs sharply from traditional missionary work in that pioneers are generally expected to be self-supporting. They become part of their new community in all aspects: by working there, participating in community activities, and supporting the local government and its institutions.

Almost the same activity as missionary with a little bit change to spread the Faith.

During the devotional program, selections from the Bahá’í writings, and often the scriptures from other religions, are read aloud.

Are any representatives of other religions present to defend their own words?

“And since there can be no tie of direct intercourse to bind the true God with His creation, and no resemblance whatever can exist between the transient and the Eternal, the contingent and the Absolute, He hath ordained that in every age and dispensation a pure and stainless Soul be made manifest in the kingdoms of earth and heaven.” –Bahá’u’lláh

He is announcing the arrival of a new manifestation in every age.

“This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future.” — Bahá’u’lláh

Eternal. How could an eternal path be separate and independent from other eternal paths that come from the same source for the same reason? Doesn’t it mean that they are all the continuation of one another? Has Bahaullah announced such ‘independence’ by himself?

From 21 April to 2 May, Bahá’u’lláh shared with those Bábís in His company that He was the Promised One foretold by the Báb–foretold, indeed, in all the world’s scriptures.

Are his direct words available that he said he was the Promised One?

On 29 May 1892 , Bahá’u’lláh passed away. His remains were laid to rest in a garden room adjoining the restored mansion, which is known as Bahji. For Bahá’ís, this spot is the most holy place on earth.

May his sould remain in peace in heavens. Amen.

The Bábí Faith was founded on 23 May 1844 when a 25-year-old merchant in the Iranian city of Shiraz announced that He was Islam’s promised Qa’im, “He Who Will Arise.”

I understand the Islam’s promised Qa’im is the savior who will come at the end of the age and will bring justice to the world. According to the Moslem, he is the last to come. It is almost the same idea as the Christians believe in.

In some respects, the Báb’s role can be compared to John the Baptist in the founding of Christianity. The Báb was Bahá’u’lláh’s herald: His primary mission was to prepare the way for Bahá’u’lláh’s coming. Accordingly, the founding of the Bábí Faith is viewed by Bahá’ís as synonymous with the founding of the Bahá’í Faith–and its purpose was fulfilled when Bahá’u’lláh announced in 1863 that He was the Promised One foretold by the Báb.

As mentioned above, Islam’s promised Qa’im is the last one himself. How can the Last Savior announce the upcoming of another person to come and save the world? Has Bahaullah mentioned such thing by himself, or his followers have come to this conclusion?

The central theme of the Bayan was the imminence of a second Messenger from God, one Who would be far greater than the Báb, and Whose mission would be to usher in the age of peace and plenty that had for so long been promised in Islam, as well as in Judaism, Christianity, and all the other world religions.

See the answer above on Islam’s promised Qa’im .

Thus, by proclaiming an entirely new religion, the Báb was able to help His followers break free entirely from the Islamic frame of reference and to mobilize them in preparation for the coming of Bahá’u’lláh.

See the answer above on Islam’s promised Qa’im .

12 November 1817

Birth of Bahá’u’lláh in Nur , Persia .

Bahá’u’lláh, whose name means “The Glory of God” in Arabic, was born on 12 November 1817 in Teheran.

Tehran or Nur? They are two different cities in Iran .

I think this should be enough for today. We could continue going through this message if you wish. However, this message is a long one and will take time. I guess you have got my points so far.

I have not read too much of Bahaullah’s writings. But this much I have read tells me that people are better to read his own words instead of going through the writings of those who picturize Bahaullah in their words. The same is true with other messengers.

Bahaullah came to bring big changes. He came to free people from the old religious discrimination. He came to make the society ready for the next message; a message that puts people’s hand directly into God’s hand without the help of any organizational religion.



Friday, April 23, 2004

“The vitality of man’s belief in God is dying out in every land, nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it.” –Bahá’u’lláh

“Let your vision be world-embracing, rather than confined to your own self ” –Bahá’u’lláh

“…The peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God.” –Bahá’u’lláh

Let us let these subjects of one God be in direct contact with their only God.

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